       TRAVELLER Digest 66

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Comments on On Target by "J. Dixon" <J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz>
  2) Re: Naval budgets by PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
  3) Imperial Economics by bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu
  4) Orbit to Surface travel in TNE by erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
  5) thoughts by cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
  6) Re: Introducing PC's to the RC by Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
  7) Some replies to replies by Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
  8) Pocket Empires beside the RC by Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
  9) Reply to Merrick Burkhardt by TIM MILLER <BBZTCM@bbn1.bursar.nottingham.ac.uk>
 10) More Annoying Rumors by Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 09:38:11 +1200
From: "J. Dixon" <J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Comments on On Target
Message-ID: <9410092100.AA05167@cc-server4.massey.ac.nz>

Derek Smith writes about hit locations for the On Target Damage
system:

>What I'd like to know is:  *WHAT* is the justification for making
>a LEFT leg shot 33% more probable than a RIGHT leg shot???

None, except there are only 11 possible numbers with 2d6.  If it
bugs you so much just put leg shot and roll a 50/50 chance for
which leg is hit.

Here's some extras:

I can't remeber what I said about concussion damage but according
to On Target take the effect of concussion from TNE, i.e.
distributed equally over the whole body, for each hit location roll
a d3 this is the number of hits at that location and roll up
specific damage(s).  This takes longer but demonstrates how nasty
explosives can be.

When assessing the chance to break a bone or amputate a limb use
the proportion of hit points for that location to modify the
chance.  For example a PC's head has 20 hit points and takes a 1
point wound.  The chance to break a bone is say 80% then the chance
is 80% * 1/20 or 4%.

>The rest of it looks real good though.  A true testament to the
>qualitative superiority of nonviolence...  8-)

>--Derek Smith

It sure does.  We have had some pretty interesting and funny things
happen when using the On Target system.  When we started we were
using the TNE damage system and we hated it.  The combats were too
comic book like even with the "Quick Kill" rule which it is not,
the book suggests double damage for PC's and death for NPC's.  One
character was shot seven times and was only slightly wounded.  We
also didn't like the different systems for PC's and NPC's.  So we
chucked it all out and went with On Target. 


Jonathan Dixon
J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz

------------------------------

Date: 09 Oct 1994 18:15:20 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Naval budgets
Message-ID: <01HI2Y5V54029FM83V@pimacc.pima.edu>

From: IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  9-OCT-1994 11:37:24.70
To: IN%"traveller@MPGN.COM"  "Multiple recipients of list"
CC: 
Subj: Naval budgets


Nicholas James writes:
>I was always convinced that the budgets in TCS were too high, and that the 
>guidelines given in Striker were more realistic [...]
>
>Striker says that the per capita GNP for a world of average tech level 
>(B/C) is Cr15,000. It also says that military spending will average 3% 
>of GNP, or Cr450 per person.
>[The military budget has to be spread between Navy, Army, Planetary Defence 
>Forces, COACC, Marines, Scouts and other government para-military 
>organisations, and the wet Navy]

Isn't Army, Air Force (COACC), and the wet Navy together the Planetary
Defense Forces?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just to interject my opinion into this;

It depends on your conception of how the armed forces of the Imperium
are organised. I happen to believe that the so-called 'colonial' forces
or any other "Imperial" forces of any sort, are not local forces taken 
under Imperial control. In my view the local
forces are *always* under local control while the colonial forces are
completely seperate & always under Imperial control. Therefore the Imper-
ial 'colonial' & 'regular' units of all kinds must be funded apart from
'local' forces. 

Phil


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Oct 94 23:22:09 -0500
From: bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Imperial Economics
Message-ID: <2e98c1712f29002@gold.tc.umn.edu>

Weird...I had this all set to go, and then when I read my back
messages, saw that the economic discussion had started again....

When I saw the colony rules in the new _World Tamer's Handbook_, I
wanted to see how far I could stretch them to get some interesting
results.  This is my first experiment: using the population totals
published by DGP, I've used the rules to model the economy of the
Third Imperium.  The suprising thing was, it seemed to work out
pretty well.  Judge for yourself!

TCr 1 == one teracredit (one trillion credits) 
      == one million MCr
      == Cr 1,000,000,000,000.
   
-------------------
The Third Imperium:

TOTAL POPULATION:  15.77 trillion

Agriculture: 1.52 trillion               9.6 %
Resources:   2.06 trillion              13.1 %
Industry:   11.56 trillion              73.3 %   
Military:    0.63 trillion               4.0 %

Annual Industrial Product: TCr 538000
(Does not include value of raw materials or rations.)
 
Resource use:       20.3  quadrillion tonnes yearly
                    14.2  quadrillion cubic meters yearly
                     1.01 quadrillion displacement-tons yearly
Power use:          34000 terawatts        (not including vehicles)
Capital Value:      TCr 694000             (Ag/Ind/Power/Resources only)
Housing Value:      TCr 474000             (300 cubic meters per person)
Depreciation:       TCr  44900 paid annually (Ind/Power/Housing only)
Cultivation:        1.52 trillion square kilometers 
                    152  trillion hectares
                    376  trillion acres
Military Bases:     value:        TCr 8820    
                    depreciation: TCr  423 yearly
Infrastructure:     -not computed, see below-

INDUSTRIAL composition:
  5.710 trillion heavy industry     49.4 %
  5.710 trillion construction       49.4 %
  0.135 trillion light industry      1.2 %
(Changes in these figures can affect resource needs, capital value,
 annual industrial product, and anything dependent on them.  This
 is where the Imperial free market reigns.  The above proportions
 were chosen as rough compromise figures.  See below.)
 
MILITARY composition:
  472.8   billion civilian dependents and auxiliaries
    2.52  billion wet navy                              1.6 %
    9.46  billion near-space forces                     6.0 %
    0.126 billion navy                                  0.08 %
  145.5   billion ground forces                        92.3 %

  Space units:    42000 major, 126000 minor
  Ground units:   7.3 million divisions
  COAC units:     47.3 million batteries/aircraft
  Wet Navy units: 840000 major, 2520000 minor


*** ASSUMPTIONS, OMISSIONS, AND DISCUSSION ***

For this analysis, I treated the Third Imperium as if it were, on average, 
TL12.  (In MegaTraveller, "Avg Stellar".)  I think this is a more accurate 
reflection of the Imperium than assuming TL15, since so many HiPop worlds 
are not TL15.  

There are no net imports/exports of rations or raw materials.
SN == 2.5 (arbitrary).  Six-month growing seasons were assumed; no 
modifiers used; half of agricultural production is always idle.
SS == 300 cubic meters (arbitrary). 
SL == Cr 3500 (TL12).

All power is considered to come from TL12 fusion plants.

No excess labor or excess capital was used for any calculation.

Once the population needed to support a TL12 standard of living and the
military were removed from the work force, the remainder were assigned
to heavy industry/construction and supporting resource production.

Transportation infrastructure value was not computed for either civilian 
transport of goods or military supply.  The need for gravitic freighters
and 100000 disp-ton bulk haulers is tremendous.

As an aside, a merchant fleet of 20 million "Common Imperial Transports"
from _Rebellion Sourcebook_ would carry over 200 billion displacement-
tons of cargo, be worth TCr 70000, and using WTH cost TCr 3400 every
year for maintenance and depreciation.  Even scaling this up suggests 
that most transport and production is in-system.  Blaine Tukera and his
brothers could easily have been quadrillionares, before the Rebellion!  
(That's million-billionare!)  And then there are the megacorporations 
that are heavily in banking and lending like Hortalez et Cie, which 
could be even more intimidating.

The troops in the military were divided up according to _Path of Tears_,
as if the Imperium were a HiPop world.  The force in the space navy was
doubled to reflect a greater interstellar focus and account for the
IISS and Planetary Navies.  The figures above include *all* Imperial and
local forces in the Imperium.  Military capital was purchased at TL12,
reflecting the majority of local planetary armies; TL15 would increase
all values by x1.5.  No allowance was made for equipment purchases or 
the resource needs; somebody else want to try that?

Naval equipment value can be estimated.  _Rebellion Sourcebook_ agrees
well with the above and suggests the following rough calculations:

   IN + Subsector Reserves == 640 fleets of about 5 squadrons each.
   Assume each squadron is worth almost TCr 1.  Then the aggregate
   force is worth roughly TCr 3000.  They have a total of about 1000
   major ships in each of about 22 sectors, so double this to include 
   the IISS and Planetary Navies, and we get about TCr 6000 total 
   value.  Roughly TCr 300 must be paid yearly on depreciation and 
   repairs, according to _World Tamer's Handbook_.  Supply adds more
   costs.
   
Each HiPop world's share of the navies would be about TCr 5.  This 
is actually quite close to the figures in _Trillion Credit Squadron_!
This estimate needs more testing.  Supply ships are not included -- they 
are covered in the military infrastructure computation which I didn't 
try to do.  Each HiPop world's share of the ground force is about 6500 
divisions.

The ag info should be taken with a grain of salt.  I tested the ag
model on the Earth at TL8 to find a carrying capacity at nutrition
of 1.0 assuming all land hexes were of richness 1.0 and could be
100% farmed -- an unrealistically high assumption.  I could only
feed 2.6 billion people with *all* land hexes in farm production.  
(Six-month growing season; no other environmental effects included.)
This has to be off by at least a factor of four, more likely a factor
of ten or more; does anyone know what the current estimates for human 
carrying capacity on Earth are?  Or other relevant information?  This 
appears to be a major bug in the colony econ rules. 

Also, under the rules, using ag products as resources is a losing 
proposition at almost all tech levels, so I didn't do it.  TL12 ag 
production also uses more raw materials than TL8 ag production, even
after land and yield are taken into account, which may or may not be 
plausible.  

There should be a provision for a recycling program, though.  In 
1100 years, assuming population is steady and tech level stays at 12, 
the Imperium uses up enough raw materials to fill the entire volume 
of the Moon.  (UWP size-2 world.)  According to WTH, it gets *worse* 
at higher tech levels.  I wonder where all that raw material is going?  

Finally, lets bring TNE into this.  The Regency has a total population
of somewhere around 900 billion to 1 trillion.  So if you divide the
calculations for the Third Imperium by 16, you should have a rough
estimate of the economy of the Regency. 

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>
  
-------------------------------------------------------------------  
"These thirteen [megacorporations] are so large that no one person,
or even group of persons, can know their exact status at any given
moment.  The number of beings they employ, directly and indirectly,
their annual operating budgets, profits, and even total shares of
common stock defy imagination."
       
       "Megacorporations", by Greg Videll and Tom Peters, _MTJ_ #3.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 02:49:20 CDT
From: erich@bush.cs.tamu.edu (Erich Schneider)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Orbit to Surface travel in TNE
Message-ID: <9410100749.AA01760@ bush.cs.tamu.edu>

Thumbing through TNE, BL, and FF&S, I find there's a paucity of
material on orbit to surface (and back) travel. In fact, the only
thing I can find is the statement that unstreamlined hulls allow no
skimming and no landing, streamlined hulls allow skimming and landing
on planets with atmospheres no greater than Thin, and airframe hulls
allow any landings.

Some curious results, then, are:

- The Lab Ship wouldn't seem to be very useful for first contact
missions, because it's unstreamlined and its launch is only
streamlined. What are they going to land on an Earth-like planet with,
the air raft? (Better hope it's enclosed.)

- The various pictures in these books of (streamlined) Free Traders
landed on planets (either spaceports or the wilderness) with people
walking around them sans breathers or pressure suits are kind of
strange. Also, (airframe) Fat Traders have a big advantage when ships
of the two types visit Earthlike planets without highports.

It would seem more reasonable to me to say that streamlined ships
could land on any planet provided they have contragrav, while airframe
ships don't need contragrav if the atmosphere is at least Thin
(or Standard?).

Comments? Unfortunately, my copies of CT and 2300AD are several
hundred miles away. (I recall 2300AD substantially dealt with
orbit-surface travel.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:30:02 +0100 (BST)
From: cs5025@wlv.ac.uk (L.T.Bryant)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: thoughts
Message-ID: <m0quHzX-0003taC@ccub.wlv.ac.uk>

Bcak again with a few thoughts, 
Im considering running my TNE campagn ( gasp) but as i dont  like
the  back ground ( i still dont like the idea of the virus  being
able  to  rewrite the neural network bio-organic systems)  so  im
going  to  try to run a more classic campaign ,  the  question  i
have  is  does any one have any experiance of this  and  can  you
give me a few hints.
That and is the subsector genorator any good.

Thats it for now 
Bye 
L bryant

-- 
oh rose thou art sick
               the invisible worm that flys by night.....STEEL


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 18:54:03 +0100
From: Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Introducing PC's to the RC
Message-ID: <9410081753.AA25688@donald.informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>

Julian Norton wrote:

> Their ship is virtually useless after a misjump, and floats into RC
> controlled space. The ship is intercepted by the RC and the RC decide
> they could use a team of people like my PC's for some of there more
> 'sensitive' missions in the wilds. 

If I understand right, your character aren't born in the RC and/or
aren't citizen of the RC, are they? So from where do they come? Wilds?
Rengency? A Pocket Empire? Deep-frosted from 1130?

I see the RC as a normal government and so the RC don't have the right
to recruit the players scout ship. Hovever, the RC will probably want
to know all informations about the non-RC-area the characters have.
If the characters don't want to give this informations voluntary, they
could exchange them for a repair allowance of their starship.
Otherwise only a high Admin and Bribe skill will help to get a
shipyard to repair the scout.  Probably all shipyards in the RC are
booked-out for months with construction of new starships.

But if the characters have enough Credits/Money they are free whatever
they like to do.  A smash&grab mission -- or just a `shoot in the
dark' after carefully studying the old info data archives -- may be a
food start -- but that's not an adventure _in_ the Reformation
Coalition.  I think, not only the RC government but also wealthy
individuals may want to give the money for a lucrative adventure.

> Their ship is virtually useless after a misjump, and floats into RC
> controlled space. The ship is intercepted by the RC and the RC decide
> they could use a team of people like my PC's for some of there more
> 'sensitive' missions in the wilds.

I think, the players should have the initiative on this.  I think,
that mission-orientend adventures are boring, but that's surely a
matter of taste.  I think, the RC don't need everybody -- and if they
need more personal, they will first look for people from the RC
perhaps.

> 2)      How do I brief the PC's about the RC? I was thinking about
>         setting up a meeting on the RC ship and handing over a number
>         of documents explaining the RC (ie. photocopies from the rules).

I think, it's enough, if the players (and their characters) know the
RC as a very large and somewhat powerful pocket empire that has its
restricted area of operation.  The first impression of the characters
will be the star port of their first word, they will archive -- and
this people will be 'the RC' for them for a long time.

Internal politics, the details of their foreign affairs are thinks,
that are unimportant.  I don't think, that showing rules helps to
flesh out the live of the RC citizen.

>         What parts of the rules should I give them? Just the intro to
>         the RC in the TNE rule book? Any suggestions? How did other GM's
>         introduce there PC's to the RC?

Do your players know the TNE rules?  Otherwise I wonder what else
rules are RC-specific?  When I started, I told the players about the
RC background -- a group of world, that is recovering after the total
destruction of a giant star empire.  Something far related to the
Foundation triology of Assimov.  All players know after 5 minutes,
what kind of character they would like to play. Then I shortly
explaned the TNE rules -- mainly the character generation and the task
resulution.  After this, we startet to roll up the character, trying
to make something like the prior imagination.  After three long hours,
we started "Ok, you are all at the weekly auction at Aubaine.
Congratulation, you managed to get an old far trader spending all your
saved money (the ship DMs)" After this, I described the live of
Aubaine and the players decided what to do next (become rich in the
Wild was their primary goal, but how?)

bye
-- 
Stefan Matthias Aust // keep the soldiers gunning, keep the cameras running,
                    //  cause the rulers always laugh at the video bloodbath

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 19:33:06 +0100
From: Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Some replies to replies
Message-ID: <9410081832.AA25929@donald.informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>

Les Howie, 
Harold D. Hale,
thanks for your replies.

If there're obviously a lot of misprints in the TNE books -- even more
than are corrected in the update booklet -- how about collecting them
in this forum.  Not only because my classic Traveller rules are (only)
a translation which could have errors too, it's also annoying to
verify all strange informations.

On the travel times: Ok, TNE has another explanations for maneuver
drives what a) makes it a trip of weeks instead of hours to refuel at
a gas giant and b) changes the ship design, because not jump fuel in
important anymore but maveuver fuel (G-hours).  I think, A realy
fast(tm) ship should have about 50 G or more. If I'm right, a ship
need 12.5 m3 fuel per G per 100t ship displacement.  In classic
traveller, most ship had enough fuel for exactly one jump.  Now, with
the use of maneuver fuel, all ships can make 2 jumps without
refueling, because the 100 diameter distances needs less than 1 G-h.
The scout (if I remember correctly) can even make 3 jumps.  Because a
jump target can also be empty space (as I ask prior) this greatly
improves the operation range of the old ships.

I remember a statement I heared (or read) once, that there's a great
rift on the map, that only Jump-6 ships can fly through.  If I know
that there's fuel at the other side, I can now make this fight with my
Jump-2 scout, jumping three times. Very odd.

So I think, I like the old system better (and the old (German) rules
book also already contains the ship design rules -- another good point
:-)

On hit capacity: I tought about using the quick kill rules, but after
remembering a very disapoinging RuneQuest (I know it's of topic)
adventure where my character died because the master rolled 01
(critical success, twice maximal weapon damage for spears = 22) on
attack and a no armour protecton (the PC had only 15 hit points) I
decided that is roll is too much purly accidentaly.  However, I want,
that a normal 2D6 pistol is still dangerous (and is feared by the
players :-). 

Just changing the damage dice might help but then there's still the
problem (as I think) that hit capacity depends too much on CON and STR
-- with a factor of three.  That skills and other stats depends too
much on the attributs is however a general problem with the rules.

As and instant idea, what's about using the "Mensch aergere dich
nicht"-rule (I don't know the english name of this game): On a 6
reroll and add?

A 18x90 HEAP ammoution is probably not the typical personal combat
thing.  I don't know (and don't be interested in) the exacted design
procedure but that's probably something very big (length of 9 cm?)
with armor piecing capability.  To use bigger guns to reduce the hit
points problems seems however not to be a good solution.

Btw. What is TCS? (Traveller Combat System?)

bye.
-- 
Stefan Matthias Aust // keep the soldiers gunning, keep the cameras running,
                    //  cause the rulers always laugh at the video bloodbath

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:09:43 +0100
From: Stefan Matthias Aust <sma@informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Pocket Empires beside the RC
Message-ID: <9410081909.AA26211@donald.informatik.uni-kiel.d400.de>

My players decided that their characters will help the government of
Keipes to become a pocket empire. For the payment of 1 MCr each, but
the rules of Keipes (I'll call him Grossherzog further because I've
forgotten his official title) will pay this money think that it is
worth.  Perhaps, he will actually play the PCs, but time will show ;-)

But what does this mean for the new Keipes pocket empire and the RC?
Will the RC tolerate other starfaring powers?  Another point is, that
it's of course the RC ship Eos, what the players will repair and
reequip. I don't think, that the RC will like this.  But what can they
do?

My first idea of the politics of Keipes is the following. They will
continue with their non-trading politics, however, a handful Far
trader will allowed to land, and to trade Hitech goods -- prevered
good to help raising TL -- for raw materials or work (refinement of
other goods).  As fast as possible (and as I got the World Tamers book
:-), Keipes will started to establish a colony on a neighbour world,
together with a strong military outpost.  If they can find some old
imperial starships and repair them with the help of there B-starport
theirself, the 'ball will roll on.'  If the RC will try to attack
Keipes or try of make a trading blockade, Keipes will use their RC
hostages to prevent this.  Keipes isn't bad -- they only want to force
the issue, in a feeling of too-late-commers (if you can say so
(probably not)).  The Grossherzog of Keipes is probably the successor
of the old imperial noble -- and he feels he have to re-establish any
sort of empire.  Hovever, Keipes is still affraid of the Virus -- and
they might be not so wrong with this fear.  Promise isn't that far.

Lacing further information, I've decided that the people of Keipes are
somewhat related with China in look, names, their working and their
behaviour to the government.

I also gave Keipes two old system defence boots, which they bought
from a Liga trader 10 months ago.  Because of distrust and bad
experiences with the Liga, the Liga mechanics 'accendently died'
shortly after the Data priests of Keipes thought, that they roughly
understand the functions of the ships.  The Liga help Keipes to grow
because they like to have a safe haven in Aubaine -- so they tried to
use the Grossherzog. Hoverver, it's not exaclty clear, who tries
currently to use whom, so agents of the Liga are very upset on Keipes.

Any (further) oppinions?
-- 
Stefan Matthias Aust // keep the soldiers gunning, keep the cameras running,
                    //  cause the rulers always laugh at the video bloodbath

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 13:56:14 GMT
From: TIM MILLER <BBZTCM@bbn1.bursar.nottingham.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Reply to Merrick Burkhardt
Message-ID: <MAILQUEUE-101.941010135614.216@bbn1.bursar.nottingham.ac.uk>


Merrick Burhardt commented on some of the little errors that on the 
odd occasion creep into Traveller materials. Has anyone ever produced 
a comprehensive list errata and set of corrections ?

Tim Miller.

------------------------------

Date: 10 Oct 94  8:53:06 MS
From: Steve Charlton/Avalon Software Inc
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: More Annoying Rumors
Message-ID: <9410101454.AA19771@khan.avalon.COM>

In reference to the post regarding Challenge magazine; I was told last week
by
 an assistant flunky at my local game store that GDW had folded.  This was
 subsequently denied by the manager of that store.  However, I did send an
 E-Mail to GDW Support asking if they were stillin business, but received no
 response.  This is not conclusive evidence of anything; my mail server is
 questionable at best (this is the second attempt for this message).  

But then again, Loren and the other GDW folk have been mysteriously silent on
 the TML.  Leap to your own panicked conclusions; I won't beleive it until I
see
 some form of official obituary.
  

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 66
**************************
